Add pronouns to profiles/chat

Note: I don’t speak for all queer people and see this initial post as a springboard for more discussion to an eventual pronoun feature.

It would be good to have pronouns built into the website.

You can see how these have been modded into the core Twitch experience with a browser extension.

Essentially the users can add their pronouns from a list of suggestion pronouns:
he/him, she/her, they/them, xe/xem and more…

Now there has been some discussion about this being too restrictive. Could there be just a input box to put whatever you want?

The only argument I see against this would be the potential for abuse. If you were anti-LGBT you could easily set your pronouns to something abusive.

For pronouns to be useful they should appear near the user’s name for streamers to see them at a glance. That way they can more easily use the correct pronouns.

Screenshot 2021-08-24 at 17.47.38

Safety

There may be reasons that you may not want to share pronouns. You could be outted as transgender/queer to your family, friends or government.

For this reason I think they should be optional (but encouraged even for cispeople/non-queer people), and you should also be able to specify who can see your pronouns.

We could take some inspiration from the Peer2Peer platform.

I suggest:

  • You can change and remove your pronouns at any point
  • You can decide whether your pronouns are visible on your profile, search results (if they were to be used a way of categorising) or just in chat

I think it should be clear if you add your pronouns to the website that they should be considered public even with some level of filtering, so people under their risks in putting pronouns in.

I personally dont feel like this is required on a platform where you are a username. I feel like this is only required in the real world with your irl name.

Your username gives you the option to be whoever you want to be and tbh doesnt even limit you to being human (I have a few Penguin followers :wink::joy:).

I think this is the beauty of usernames on Glimesh :woman_shrugging:t3::relaxed:

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People in queer communities use pronouns to avoid being misgendered.

There would be an option for ‘Any’ and ‘None’ to cover if you didn’t want someone to use pronouns and instead use your username as you’re suggesting.

Or simply you don’t choose any pronouns and it not show up at all.

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Just a passing comment for now:

One of the challenges is getting the pronouns to “fit” on the already existing username line, especially when the user is also a moderator and has timestamps on.

What are the thoughts of only showing the pronouns for the streamer by default (since you’re in their channel) and you having to hover over the username to see a chatters pronouns?

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I’m not sure having them hidden would be a good solution as:

  1. You may not know if someone has made the conscious effort to add pronouns if they’re optional. You might assume they’re not there and use the wrong pronouns.
  2. You would need to stop what you’re doing as a streamer to interact with the chat window to be able to read them. If I’m playing a game I can now not glance at my chat and know how to address someone.

I would treat pronouns as an extension of a username and should be visible at the same time if possible.

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Had some ideas for how to solve the problem you’re solving…

  1. Reduce font-size slightly
  2. Reduce line-height of comment, made emote closer to text.
  3. Reduce spacing and padding between chat items
  4. Move the optional timestamp to the right
  5. Move mod actions to a row above main row (this would not be seen by most users so I think this is a fair compremise)

ILikeCatsALotTheyreCute is close to the 24 char limit so represents a long name. I’d imagine the timestamp could also be inline after the name like it is currently.

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I personally think that it’s even worth cutting off the username if required (like in zactopus’ example instead of “She/Her (pfp) ILikeCatsALotTheyreCute”, it might get cut on visual (maybe on mobile as an extreme example of tight confines) to something like “She/Her (pfp) ILikeCatsALotTh…”)

Having pronouns shouldn’t be a requirement, but if someone actively wants to label their own pronouns, then it should be a priority in my opinion.

Then as for Clone’s idea of hiding the info, instead “hide” the full username except on hover or click.

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I don’t see a problem with having pronouns added to profiles/chat as long as the user has the ability to not pick them if they so choose to.

I may also even go as far as having two types of options:

1)The user chooses where their pronouns go (chat/profile) if they decide to use them
2) Streamer has the option to block the use of pronouns in their chat, which supersedes #1 if the streamer so chooses, but that #1 should be by default turned on.

As much as it is the viewers place to have pronouns, it is the streamers space to make it as they want.

Could you explain why as a streamer you’d want to block pronouns?

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I didn’t say that I, personally, as a streamer would want to block pronouns. Just that a streamer may want to block pronouns and in the idea of modularity, the streamer COULD choose to block pronouns.

If you’re asking me if I would block pronouns in my chat if given the option to then the answer would be: No, i would not block pronouns in my chat :smiley:

It would seem to send the message that some streamers would be willing to use the incorrect pronouns (misgender in some cases) users coming into their streams?

As you said you wouldn’t block them so what would be the argument for blocking them?

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I suppose the argument would be so that streamers have the freedom of choice to whether they have it or not.

Not having them may end up with them misgendering people but I suppose that would be their choice and people who come in and see that they have pronouns turned off may realize that that is not a stream they want to be part of early on. Considering it is an action they have to take (as in my suggestions pronouns would be turned on by default), they would be sending a message. Maybe that’s the point.

That’s why in my original suggestion it was already a stretch for me to say that the streamer should have the ability to turn them off if they wanted to. It’s a streamers choice vs potentially misgendering dilemma for me. I want the streamer to be able to own their space and have it set up the way they want, but I also wouldn’t want people to be misgendered and feel unsafe.

I think what you’re arguing for would go against the Rules of Conduct.

Sexuality and gender are protected in those rules and misgendering is a form of harassment.

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If that’s the case then you can just ignore that argument since I agree with the original idea of having pronouns available to everyone :smiley: whether they want it in chat or their profile and that it should be optional for all

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I think pronouns are necessary for communicating with people and should be visible everywhere

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Just as a point of clarification - intentional misgendering with the intent to upset or harass somebody would be against the Terms of Service. Simply misgendering somebody by accident would not.

I fully support adding pronouns to chat, but as stated the issue is making them fit. The goal is to make it work, not to sacrifice something else like username to screen space. It may be worthwhile to look at adding a line under the username for appropriate info. So essentially it would be:

Username | Timestamp
Pronouns | Mod | Sub badge
Chat message

It shows all necessary and available info, doesn’t sacrifice readability, and while it does make the message box one line “fatter” I honestly think that in short order it would look relatively normal to everybody.

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I might be missing something but shouldn’t we design for the simplest and most flexible and have the content wrap round like it currently does on Glimesh?

I considered that with my mock-up and chose extremes to show that it would be unlikely to wrap around. But if it did I don’t think it’d be a huge problem.

What is needed to take the next step on this feature?

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We don’t have a super established flow, but generally we formulate an idea, get any designs we can, and then program it. So at this point you’d need someone to volunteer to develop it. There’s no specific approval process, we try to be mostly fluid.

We’d also need to figure out if it’s a custom text field, or if you choose from a list.

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I think without a moderation step for the text field it would be prone to abuse so I would go with the drop down list and have users suggest new ones to be added when needed.

I will see how much time I have to volunteer to this but I’d break it down to the following. Which obviously would change as worked on but a rough outline of the work:

1. Add pronouns to user settings. Make it available in the Graphql API as such:

user {
  pronouns {
    text
  }
  displayname
}

Pronouns being a new data type called UserPronouns with an ID and Text. For example:

{
  "displayname": "zactopus",
  "pronouns": {
     "text": "They/He"
  }
}

With the options in a dropdown:

None <- default, doesn't store anything against the user
Ae/Aer
Any
E/Em
Fae/Faer
He/Him
He/She
He/They
It/Its
Other
Per/Per
She/Her
She/They
They/Them
They/He
They/She
Ve/Ver
Xe/Xem
Zie/Hir

2. Display pronouns on profile and channel page

We’d then surface the pronouns next to the name on a profile page:

And as a tag like ‘English’ and ‘Mature’ on the channel page (if present)

3. Streamline chat bubbles in preperation for pronouns badge

I think we could streamline the chat bubbles like suggested in this thread before adding pronouns to the chat. This will make the work more easy to break up.

4. Add pronouns to chat with privacy settings

In the user settings we would need to have some way to specify where the pronouns are now shown. This could be checkboxes:

  • Show pronouns on profile/channel pages
  • Show pronouns in chat

These would be defaulted to ‘true’.

We could see this surfaced in the data by added these fields to UserPronouns. We’d now have:

  • id
  • text
  • showOnProfileChannelPage
  • showInChat

The profile/channel pages would need to be updated to respect this new option.

We would then need to add a badge for the pronouns to the chat again respecting the privacy controls.

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That’s incredible! Thank you for putting the effort into keeping this moving forward!